Wes Tibbets

Hi Arty,I hope you've been doing well. The lyric forum sure has been dead lately. I appreciate the kind words and suggestions. I think it has an unfinished feel to it as well. I just haven't come up with anything that would benefit it. I got caught up in other projects and so forth. I'm afraid this write just sorta fell by the wayside for the time being. Best wishes!Wes

MAB,That is why I was partially reluctant to say that. I can't talk about the business from a producer or record label executive standpoint. I don't see what they see. I'm not in their world.My perspective come from decades from being a dj in night clubs, at music festivals, barnyard parties etc. I can give several examples of that just from my perspective.When I was in Greensboro, NC in late Spring 2000, some guys I worked with and I went to a big country bar there. It was either a Friday or a Saturday, can't remember which. The place was pretty full though. When we arrived it was about 8-8:30 so it was still pretty early. By 10-10:30, there were only a handful of people on the dance floor. Everybody else was sitting at their table and it was one of the quietest country bars I'd ever been to.I went to the bar to get a round of drinks and I overheard a bartender talking to the manager behind the bar. The manager was complaining about the dj. He made a remark to the effect that the guy was clueless to what people wanted to hear. I returned to my table, did a few shots, made up my mind about something and went looking for that manager. I introduced myself, gave him my business card and a brief background about my experience as a dj. And in my slightly inebriated state, I came right out and told him that if he wanted to get the party going, let me in the booth. He said he'd think about it.So I went back to my table. This was roughly 10:30 ish. The dj was playing Top 40 Country exclusively and had been all night. About 15 minutes later, the manager came to my table and told me he was thinking about giving the dj a break and if I wanted to fill in for a few minutes, he wouldn't mind giving me a shot. Well, I filled in more than a few minutes. I filled in the rest of the night. The dance floor was full. Everybody was drunk off their butts and at the end of the night, I was offered a full time job by a drunk manager who never took the time to look at my business card long enough to realize I was from Texas.The entire time I dj'd that night, I played maybe 3 or 4 Top 40 songs. If I recall correctly, I began the evening with the club mix of Tracy Byrd's "I'm From The Country". And I kept it hell raising redneck the rest of the night littered with the occasional waltz, cotton eyed joe and line dances. Even an occasional classic rock song like Take It Easy or The Georgian Satellites, "Keep Your Hands To Yourself". Because I liked doing it, I started doing it any time I went somewhere that had a country bar. Sometimes I got to dj. Sometimes I didn't. But every time I did in places like Greensboro, Macon, GA., Richmond VA., Albuquerque, NM., it was the same results. A lot of energy, a lot of drinking songs and a lot of liquor sold behind the bars. It's a formula I've kept through all of my years as a dj. And for me it has been a successful one.The last time I dj'd a festival, there were about 1000 or more people. I did it all day until the bands took the stage around 5. Not one of the songs I played was modern Nashville unless it had been recorded by a Texas artist. That is a cardinal sin at a Texas music festival unless you have acts like Merle Haggard, Charlie Daniels, DAC, or Hank Jr. playing.The last time I dj'd at all, I was asked to play for the Labor Day crowd at Lake Alan Henry. I went by the same formula but because it was a lot of the Lubbock crowd, I tried to slip in a few songs like Dierks Bentley "5150" and a few others like "Farmer's Daughter", "A Long Line Of Losers", "Pretty Good At Drinking Beer". Great party songs right? Wrong! I didn't get halfway through any one of those songs before somebody was walking over to where I was and saying something like , "Turn that s___ OFF!" I mean it can get right down hostile when you try to play some of that stuff. Even when it should fit in just fine. Oh they're fine with Beer And Bones, Prop Me Up Against The Jukebox, Chatahoochee, T.R.O.U.B.L.E, Walk Softly On This Heart Of Mine and stuff right up to about 2000. But even with Long Line Of Losers, I remember being asked, "Do you have Kevin Fowler's version?" Even though, three songs earlier I had just played Kevin Fowler's "I Ain't Drinkin' Anymore".In all of the country bars I have ever been into in Texas, I have never once heard Taylor Swift played. Now when she performs in concerts in Lubbock and stuff, I think she plays to a packed crowd.  The last country concert I saw was in 2013. An area rodeo brought in Tracy Lawrence. Personally, I love his music. I've met the guy twice and seen him 3 times including the night one of my best friends passed away. I showed up at the rodeo to see him and there was only maybe a little over a 100 people there. If Merle had played or Willie, you couldn't have found a parking spot within 3 miles of that place. So yeah, in the world of Nashville, I don't doubt that it is exactly what you say it is. But where I'm from, it is exactly the way I'm telling you it is. There's not one Nashville act scheduled to play in Wichita Falls this year. But Texas artists like Kevin Fowler are scheduled to play every Thursday and Friday. And usually Texas acts are playing simultaneously in two or three of the area bars at the very least. Whether it be in Lawton or Wichita Falls. Of course, Fort Worth Stockyards and that area is a different story. But Amarillo, Wichita Falls, Lawton, Abilene. Cities of 100-300,000 people. I don't know of one that I've heard of that is coming to play in any of those cities except Sam Riggs at the Midnight Rodeo in Amarillo in April. Clint Black and Travis Tritt are playing in Abilene soon too. Beyond that I haven't heard of any modern Nashville artists playing in those venues. Lubbock might be different. Usually they book a few acts each year. But not many.Taken as a whole, you have an area of about a million people the size of Tennessee with 100's and 100's of bars and concert venues that don't listen to Nashville enough to warrant investing money to bring in Nashville artists to perform. But if Kevin Fowler focused only on those area venues, he would stay booked to play packed houses 6 out of 7 nights of the week if he chose to do so and every venue is stumbling over each other to book him.I know I don't have to ask Justin if he agrees with me either. He knows exactly what I'm talking about. And this is all coming from a guy who does like a lot of Nashville artists and loved Nashville when he visited there. And it isn't that Texans just love Texas music,  There are a lot of transplanted artists from places like Florida and other states who have found a home here. It's just that Texans as a whole hate Nashville and what they think it represents. Now, I'm not saying I think that way because I don't. But I'm real careful who I tell that I like certain Nashville music around because it is liable to get me into a world of trouble that I don't want to be in.  Just like admitting I'm a Democrat.I didn't invent the game, I just play by the rules.

The truth is, I was misinterpreting the idea of bro country. Which you have cleared up. You defined it pretty well with this....BRO-COUNTRY is basically about THE PARTY. It is "HANGING AROUND WITH YOUR BROS." It is getting in your BIG TRUCK, CRANKING UP THE STEREO WITH (NAME ARTIST HERE) TUNES PLAYING LOUD, PICKING UP YOUR GIRL (NAMED "GURL" THROWING SOME COLD ONES IN THE BACK AND GOING WITH YOUR BLANKET DOWN BY THE (LAKE, RIVER, OCEAN) WHILE SHE DANCES IN HER SHORT SHORTS UNDERNEATH THE MOONLIGHT."As far as what I think about the business, I'd rather not voice my opinion if that is okay. I really don't see what good it would do me. My viewpoint is one of fan, dj, and wordsmith. Nobody in Nashville or the business of it cares about what guys like me think. If they did, they wouldn't put out a lot of the songs they do. From the outside looking inside, it seems Nashville pays too much attention to misleading statistics. Radio stations report their airplay and adds. Most of the requests come from bored housewives and office workers. The blue collar working man isn't in work environments where they can spend all day making requests or if they work outside, don't even have the opportunity to listen to music much. From a dj standpoint, I wouldn't play more than maybe a half dozen of those in the top 40 tops. Otherwise, I would never get a gig or keep it. When people go to clubs, they want to party. They don't want to listen to the same recycled love, love gone wrong type stuff that is jammed down their ears all day on the radio. Honestly, I'd say 90% or more people I know don't listen to modern Nashville music at all. They will turn to a traditional classic country station, red dirt country station, classic rock or hard rock. Modern or as it is commonly known "pop" country, rap and pop music are at the bottom of their choices. And truly, most of the people I know are country through and through. They are the same types who fueled the country music craze in the early 90's from a fan perspective. But when Nashville started going another way in 95 or thereabouts, everybody drifted away and went back to other things. They have been brought back in the fold to some extent by songs like "Drink In My Hand", "Country Man", "These Are My People", "Something To Do With My Hands",  and "Something About A Truck"  along with similar types of song but in the last couple of years as more of the rap slang has emerged, they've gone back to switching stations rather than listen to that. They don't watch CMT either because of either their opinions of the music and the artists or because of reality tv shows like Party Down South.Truly, I'm the most open person when it comes to music that I know. I like it all or at least I try to. I'm a liberal in a conservative world. I think that I really sugar coated things here with my answer to your question, "What do I think about the business?" But I'm not going to put myself on an island by answering it any more than what I have. And that is from the outside looking in. Because that is the only view I have. From the Nashville perspective, "What do I know about it?" From the rural country fan/lifestyle perspective, "What does Nashville know about it?" The answer to both of those questions is , "Nothing."

Hi MAB,I thought I did when I posted this....I think I understand everything you mentioned. I made a mistake in what I wrote by referring to some of the styles I was studying relating to my own from a standpoint of lingo and so forth. When I saw you use the term "syncopated", that is more what I was meaning. A lot of what I write is syncopated type lyrics. I believe that it is because I can't bellow them out like you can. What little singing ability I have is served best by syncopated phrases.To be honest, beyond the fact that each song represents a songwriter who wrote a song in a clever new way to say the same thing that has been played a million times, the only thing that I could possibly say positive about the pop country 40 is that I'm glad I learned that the term I've been searching for is "syncopated" lyrics.  Because the truth is, the only real opinion I could give on that list if I did it in depth wouldn't be anything positive. Because I don't see it as an industry professional. I see it as an old school fan of country music, club dj and amateur wordsmith. And in all honesty, my interests are better served if I don't take it any further than that.Hope you are doing well.

I do wish more would get on the lyric site and post and comment and not just one moment reflections but really try and make a difference to others writing, we all start from the bottom, so why not commit to say 2 critiques a week and post two yourselves. This site would be better off and more viable.Hi Arty,I agree with what you wrote to a degree. I've wondered to myself why the lyric forum doesn't receive the traffic that other songwriting sites do. I haven't been on here regularly enough to know why that is or even to begin to speculate the reason for that.I've been a member in songwriting forums since 2004. I was also a moderator for the lyrics forum on another site for awhile. From my experience, a lot of people don't care to give critiques because they are rarely received well. Specially among new writers. Most people would prefer to have the gratification of others simple comments about how much their material is loved rather than being told the truth. And then their are those who give the critiques that have yet to distinguish the difference between constructive critiques and non-constructive critiques. Personally, I believe in building people up instead of tearing them down. So when I give a critique, I always try to point out the positives and the negatives instead of just harping solely on one or the other.That noted, I still have experienced 100's of writers who become "booty hurt" over even the most constructive critique. They don't realize that even though someone compliments their writing and means well, they really aren't helping the writer to better their music or their skills. Which is why 9 out of 10 lyrics posted on a lot of these sites is of very poor quality. More poem than lyric. Lacks structure, rhyme scheme, story line, syllable counts, a decent hook, and many of the other things that are important to writing a good song. And that includes me too. Even after all of these years, I struggle daily with coming up with something that is new, refreshing and covers all the basics.But then there is a second side to that. Even if someone comes in here or the lyric forums on other sites, works hard to develop their writing, and puts their best foot forward, it is only a matter of time before they learn the truth from people with experience in the business. And the truth is, there is no future for them in the business. Even if they are talented, sing well, play well, write well, the odds are still stacked against them. And the fact is, most of them are just lyricists and/or porch pickers like me. I've had too many people than I can count tell me that they quit coming in and writing just because they read through these forums and everything was absolutely designed to discourage by giving them honest, true advice. It's a double edge sword.Personally, I would prefer that people are honest with me than to beat around the bush and pull a Nashville Song Service or Paramount just to rip me off and give me hope when there is none. Plus, I find it to be a good way to express myself. I have other reasons to do it as well but I'm not going to itemize every one of them. Because the truth is, that isn't the point of this post.If you read the posts I do in the lyrics forum, you will always see that I begin the post with..."Constructive comments, suggestions, crits and collabs are welcome and appreciated." I think if someone wants a crit, they should ask for one. Otherwise it just opens the door to a lot of bickering and confrontation that is totally unnecessary. And by asking for one and noting that they would prefer it to be constructive, they are letting anybody who chooses to do one (if they choose to) know that just coming in and ragging on something for the sake of being a jerk is unwanted, unappreciated, and will have its repercussions. I learned that it is the best route to take and by doing so, it avoids a lot of unnecessary arguments.Simply making crits a requirement isn't a novel idea. It has been tried before in other sites. Maybe even in this one. And it creates more headaches than is worth the trouble. I've been there, seen the results, and wouldn't recommend it.Just my two cents worth.

Hi Justin,I saw a reference to 3-6 Mafia in the Google Search but the term "3-6" goes further back according to the Urban Dictionary as a ghetto term that has to do with weed. So I didn't originally connect it to the 3-6 Mafia aspect. I assumed he was talking about putting a doob in his mouth and rolling down the windows. But I can see where it would be to turn up 3-6 Mafia songs and roll the window down as well. Either way, it was a foreign term to me.

Hi Justin,Lol,OD didn't say anything about that stuff. He just gave me a few pointers to consider on a song I wrote. He was very helpful.I had to Google "3-6". I had never heard that before. Imagine my surprise when I found the answer in the Urban Dictionary. And people make fun of us Texans using terms like "yonder" and "y'all".  But they are okay referring to their significant other as "poop" in Danish (BAE). Go figure. No wonder the average American IQ has dropped almost 10 pts. in the past decade. Social media acronyms and ghetto slang have ruined the English language. 

Thanks MAB,I think I understand everything you mentioned. I made a mistake in what I wrote by referring to some of the styles I was studying relating to my own from a standpoint of lingo and so forth. When I saw you use the term "syncopated", that is more what I was meaning. A lot of what I write is syncopated type lyrics. I believe that it is because I can't bellow them out like you can. What little singing ability I have is served best by syncopated phrases.Not that it is relevant now after what you wrote, but this is the source of those names of up and coming artists I mentioned earlier....11 New Country Artists To Watch For In 2016. Maren Morris who is at #10 on the chart you posted above is one of them. But anyway, that is irrelevant to the subject itself. OD and I have been communicating some today. He sent me some of the songs the two of you worked on together. He's helping me with some tips for "Plain Jane" to bring it around a little. I start work on Tuesday. I got a part time job working 5 hours in the early am 7 days a week. It will help supplement my income so I can put aside some money for some of the things I want to do. But mostly it's just another step along my path to returning to normalcy and defying the odds from a health standpoint. Everything about my world these days is baby steps. Anyway, thanks again.Wes

Gotcha. That's why I'm reluctant to pose questions. I know I'm over thinking things I shouldn't be. Applying techniques that have helped me in other things I've done well to a business where that mindset doesn't work. Trying to find a style to practice and a new idea for hooks in ways that will lead nowhere. My intentions are good but I'm going about it the wrong way. Same with my questions, I want to ask the right ones but I'm asking all of the wrong ones. 

Hi MAB,We've discussed in some lengths about "bro country", "rap country" and the death of "bro country". Not only in correspondence between you and me but also it has been mentioned in here as well. Frankly, studying lyrics of the up and coming artists that Nashville pushed in 2015 and moving forward into what they plan to release this year, I wonder why they would be promoting these artists when many of them are primarily "bro country", "rap country" and songwriters who pulled their titles from the Urban Dictionary.For example, I read a post on Facebook today that was titled, "Views From A Nashville Writing Sesh" in which these are examples of the material that came out of the session...."The struggle is realBAE you got me in the feels""Sorry I'm not sorry I'm givin' this vibeIG on Fleek sittin' by the poolside""I'm never not ready to drop the tailgateThumbin' up something to dance to by Drake"First off, I know BAE on the net means "Before Anyone Else" but it originates from a Danish term that means "poop". Second you have "IG on Fleek sitting by the poolside". I have no idea what the heck that means. In what way are either of those country? Is it a new style that is evolving from rap and internet slang? It seems like someone just opened the Urban Dictionary online and browsed it until they found a title to write around. Then in the last one, it is clearly reflective of not only "bro country" but "rap country" as well. Like a hybrid of the two.Which also leads me to the question of the death of bro country. In 2015, we saw the emergence of artists like Cam, Canaan Smith, Michael Ray and Kelsea Ballerini among others. In 2016, the up and coming list of artists includes Lucie Silvas, Jon Langston, Brooke Eden, Two Story Road, Courtney Cole, Cane Brown, Post Monroe, Maren Morris, Tucker Beathard, Ashley Campbell (Glen's daughter), and LANco among others.Now with the ladies, the lyrics are a lot of these Miranda Lambert "Girl Power" songs with slang interweaved in the titles and lyrics like "Dibs" for example. With the guys, when you go through their lyrics, it's a lot of country rock, bro country, country rap, urban dictionary slang interwoven from one lyric to another depending on the subject. But clearly with not only the up and coming male artists from last year but also the ones that are coming out in 2016, bro country is alive and well in songs like "American Muscle" by Canaan Smith, and others I can't recall off the top of my head. My question is, if it's a dead horse, why is Nashville promoting artists that specialize in that sound and style of songwriting? Do you see where I'm coming from? On one hand, you have this thought, fact, or rumor, whatever that labels are no longer taking bro country songs and that it'll be a dead form of music within I think it was six months. But on the other hand, the artists that they are investing in have obviously not only come from those roots but also are performing and writing that type of song. Why would they do that? It doesn't make sense from a business perspective if they've taken so much time to groom and promote these artists music only to drop their style flat out before they even really get started. And that even goes to more established artists as well. Like Florida-Georgia Line and others. If these songs are still burning up the Top 40 and making the industry money, I just don't see the logic to kick a gift horse in the mouth. Not that I'm doubting your word or anything. Please don't think I am. I've just been studying a lot of the songs that are out and the styles of the artists that are coming out. And man, I don't see it. I see a lot of styles in there along the lines I've mentioned. The one I don't understand and don't really care for is the social media slang like "BAE' or "IG on Fleek". And from what I can tell, Cane Brown is big on that rap roots country from at least a slang aspect.I really thought about all of that a lot trying to make sense of it. One possibility that came to mind is something else you said about, and forgive me if I misquote you, that Nashville moves in "3's". By that, it occurred to me that the decision they are making now to quit accepting "bro country" songs reflects not what they did last year, next year or even the year after. But along the lines of 3 or 4 years from now. Because obviously, they are bound to have plenty of these types of songs stockpiled and ride out the last vestige of popularity regarding bro country based just upon what they already have. Is this a pretty good assumption?Anyway, just curious. I know you've touched on the subject in previous posts. But when I read articles about up and coming artists that are coming out in the here and now with an eye towards a year long trend in music, it just doesn't seem to have any indications that it's anywhere close to being a thing of the past from the bro country aspect and from the aspect of the other styles, it looks like they are opening doors for Kanye West to have a future in Nashville. I can't help but think about what you said about you never leaving rock, rock left you. Kinda seems like country never left Nashville, Nashville is leaving country.Maybe not from a sound standpoint altogether but certainly from a lyrical standpoint. Of course, I'm not running anybody down. That's just my observation based on everything I'm reading and studying.To be honest, from my perspective when it comes to writing styles. A lot of what they are doing is similar in many ways to my natural tendencies as I write. Not to say that I write songs as good as theirs. It's just that the writing style, use of slang, etc. are the stronger aspects of my writing style as well. I've pulled slang from the Urban Dictionary before. I'd be a liar if I said I haven't. But what I haven't done to my knowledge is go down the road of writing with social media terms like lol, bae, smh, ttyl, fyi. etc. etc. Sorry to write a book. I hope I haven't offended anyone. It wasn't my intention. I, just wanted to pick your brain a little more about this stuff. While I've been reading these articles and lyrics of and about up and coming artists, I couldn't get what you mentioned out of my thought process. And I admit, I became rather confused by it all. Thanks!Wes