Caution to the Wind

Hi Folks... new to the new Songramp... would appreciate some feedback on the lyrics. I have alternates but these are the originals that I had settled on. Thanks in advance. 

CAUTION TO THE WIND

I wanna hear it from your lips, but right now all they speak are lies.
I’m sorry if my questions trip you up, but you’re stumbling on your alibi’s
All I have are questions, running circles in my mind
And despite your best deceptions, answers ain’t too hard to find

Chorus:
Caution to the wind, you threw, Caution to the wind, it’s true,
I know where you’ve been, throwing caution to the wind

I know he’s your little secret, you thought you had him to yourself.
And though you tried your best to keep it up, you were foolin’ you and no one else.

All your carefully crafted stories, woven lies you’ve spun so well

Could not insulate me from the truth, your insincerity now tells

Chorus

Bridge:
Sometimes a treasures glimmer’s much too hard to stave
And often a pleasures simmer easily enslaves
But from the look in your eyes and the sorry they miss
I am certain your heart must know about this.

Chorus

Angelo
welcome to the ramp, I hope you have a great learning experience here.

Really liking some of your lines such as the circles in ming and stumbling on alibi's'.  For mine and this is only one mans opinion,  the story is not developing, it all sounds like a single controlled argument without building to anything greater - look at how movies and TV show arguments, they build and build until, the fight or someone running away or breaking down and reconciling. The lyric must do the same.

So yes I can sort of see it is about cheating YOU are telilng ME (the listenerer and hence cheater), check out Lyin Eyes by the Eagles and see the differnece perspective makes when writing such a tale.

One thing you will definetely learn is the problems with cliche, espeacially as the hook. The biggest problem with cliches is they have been heard before a thousand million times so the skill of a songwriter has to be to rewrite these into a fresh set of words which while still meaining the same pick the interest of the listener.

one little suggestion
you thought you had him to   - you thought you'd kept it to yourself

Just experiment and keep an eye on the development of the story and this has some great lines to capture a listnener

Arty

Thanks Arty. I'll take a fresh look at it through your thoughts. what do you think about using the word stave in the bridge?

Angelo
depends very much on the market you are trying to pursue, I would think for Country it would be an absolute no no but for Folk, well  they seem to like such things,  for pop and rock it is fine as long it rhymes and no one listens to the words anyway!

The bigger issue relates to how you have manipulated the language to achieve a perfect rhyme, the sentence when spoken, to me, does not sound right.

Rhyme and more so perfect rhyme, is one of the most complex part of writing and for too many is like swinging an axe to break a match.

There are many degress of rhyme and use of these degrees adds enormously to the feel of the lyric. There are a multitude of articles about rhyme types and placement, but understanding rhyme to me is the greatest learn of lyric writing.

Good Luck with it all

Arty

Thanks for the feedback Arty. Yes, it is country and that is why I felt uncomfortable using stave. The alt I have at this point reads...

Sometimes an embers flicker turns into a flame
and often a pleasure’s simmer ends up just the same
But from the look in your eyes and the sorry they miss
I am certain your heart must know about this.

Thanks for the suggestion to look at different degrees of rhymes. Very helpful. 

Angelo, you have some nice turns of phrase here, and a solid idea that would benefit from being revisited in terms of a storyline, more concrete details, and the structure.

My first impressions: The verses are wordy, with a lot of repetition in the lines. Determine exactly what you want to say, then write it down in as few words as possible, but making every word count.

It's not clear what the singer wants to hear from the singee's lips.

It's also not clear what the story is about. Is the 'secret' another man? When the singer says 'had him to yourself', it sounds as though he is saying the singee was sharing the man with someone else. This might be a language issue, but it causes confusion.

Rather than describing a scenario in general terms, I'd like to see you provide specific, concrete details. What were the lies? The alibis? What stories?

The verses basically say the same thing. To keep the reader's/listener/s interest, there should be some progression in the story from the first verse to the second.

The way you've written out the chorus makes the first half of line 1 sound like yoda-speak (e.g. 'Caution to the wind, you threw'). Better might be something like:
Caution to the wind
You threw caution to the wind
It's true, I know where you've been
Throwing caution to the wind

The imagery you want to evoke in the bridge is good, but it's convoluted & awkwardly worded. If we wouldn't speak something a certain way, we shouldn't sing it that way.
And a $100 word like 'stave' sounds out of place. :)

I was eventually able to understand the sense of the bridge, but it might be difficult for someone to 'get it' during the first listen.

Below is simply a rough example of an alternative & simpler way to express the idea. 
The glimmer of treasure can be hard to resist
The simmer of pleasure can come to the boil
But in your eyes it's the 'sorry' I miss
It hurts to know our love has been spoiled

I hope some of the above might be useful. They're simply the thoughts of one person, though, so keep or sweep. :)

Donna

UPDATE: I've just seen your most recent post. Given that you're thinking 'country', the lyric would need to be anchored in concrete details, 'visual furniture'. I'd suggest you check out a few good current country songs, and see how these have been presented.

I'd also recommend you get hold of one or two good books on lyric writing. Anything by Pat Pattison or Sheila Davis would be useful starters. Pattison also has a good website (http://www.patpattison.com) with extremely useful videos.
I might mention as well that his (free) 6-week songwriting course is beginning on April 20 on http://www.coursera.org. It's excellent. I did it myself two years ago. 

Thank you Donna for the comprehensive and very helpful critique as well as the book/website information. I am looking forward to seeing what htey have to offer. I had spent a long time away from music and songwriting and am slowly making my way back. There was a golden rule that in order to be commercial, songs had to last under three minutes. Do you know if this is still the case? This song in its original form was longer and the final verse brought the story to a close. Again, thank you, Very helpful!


Angelo

I addressed some of the issues that were brougth up in critics and am posting for further feedback... thanks in advance

Caution to the Wind

I wanna hear it from your lips
Is there another guy?
I’m sorry if my questions trip you up,
but you’re stumbling on your alibi’s

That girl’s weekend out to Vegas
They all said you had to take
I asked one of them about it,
she said that Florida was great

Chorus:
Caution to the wind
You threw… Caution to the wind
Its true,
I know where you’ve been,
Throwing caution to the wind.

All your carefully crafted stories,
Woven lies you’ve spun so well
Could not insulate me from the truth,
the look upon your face now tells.

Would you answer a few questions?
How long has this been going on?
Is he someone that you care for?
Was it a fling and now he’s gone?

Chorus

Bridge:
Just like an embers flicker can burst into a flame
Often a pleasure’s simmer will turn out much the same
But when the fire’s put out and all that’s left is a mess
Those who’re stuck with the ruin must clear up what’s left

I wanna hear it from your lips
But right now all I feel is pain
And though I’ve done my best to keep it in,
I only wish you felt the same

Don’t want to hear of your excuses,
apologies or reasons why
No need to make a single sound
‘cause the next your hear will be goodbye (sound of slamming door)

Angelo, good job providing specific details. This makes the story far more interesting, especially in V1.

I think you need to focus now on the structure and on fine-tuning the bridge. It's not usual to have another verse after a bridge. The function of a bridge is to give the song a fresh impetus, lyrically and/or musically, something new to pull the story forward before swinging back into the final resounding chorus. The bridge is as important as the chorus in terms of being 'hooky'. Sometimes it's even more important.

I'd suggest you stick with V/Ch/V/Ch/Br/Ch. I suggest dropping V3, as it's basically repeating what's already in V1 & 2 (and  repeats line 1 in V1). It also seems to contradict what the singer is asking for in V1&2 (i.e. her reasons, apology, etc.).

Losing a verse will keep the lyric from being overly wordy, and more likely to hold the listener's attention. A bridge needs to be succinct and hard-hitting. Above all, it needs to be clear. Lines 1 & 2 are still convoluted. In real life, we wouldn't say 'pleasure's simmer' or 'an ember's flicker'. We'd say 'simmer of pleasure' and 'flicker of an ember'. The bridge as it stands is a philosophical metaphor, and doesn't tell us anything specific about the singer. Something strong and concrete would work better.

I'd suggest dropping the current bridge altogether, and creating a short, pithy statement. Importantly, especially in a country song the singer/the character in the story needs to be someone the audience would care about, or sympathise with. Up until now, the singer has been complaining about the situation. We need to know he has a backbone, and has finally reached the point of taking a stand. He could do this in a short, to-the-point bridge (e.g. not more than 2-3 lines).

I'd also suggest making his approach in the verses stronger. Why is he apologising in V1 for tripping her up with his questions? The use of questions makes him seem weak and lacking in confidence. By making statements, he's putting himself in control of the situation, but we still see that he's vulnerable and hurting. This combination of inner strength but human vulnerability would make him more endearing to the listener.

Below is simply a rough example of dropping the questions.

I wanna hear from your lips
That you've got another guy
I know my questions trip you up
You stumble on your alibis
That girls' weekend out to Vegas
They all said you had to take
I asked one of them about it
She said Florida was great 

All your badly crafted stories
Lies you tried to spin so well
Helped lead me to the truth
Your lips refuse to tell
Now it's time to answer questions
I know something's going on
There's someone else you care for
He's been but he's not gone

I suggested a change in lines 1-3 in V2, as that better supports lines 2 & 3 in V1 where she's stumbling on her alibis.

I hope some of the above is useful. Keep or sweep, of course. :)

Donna

Thanks Donna. Very helpful! I go back again!!!  :)

Further Rewrite....Here is what I have so far.... While I can say I am not happy with it and don't consider it finished, I also feel like I am more in touch with what I want to say as a whole. I would like to say it more poetically. As for the bridge, this can be expanded but what I was going for was a play on the words that start with re and to communicate that the first person has a  'backbone'  as Donna mentioned. I am considering adding an additional four lines of similar structure to the bridge to create a greater build up to the "end" of his stand. Thoughts please.


CAUTION TO THE WIND

I wanna hear it from your lips
Is there another guy?
Too bad my questions trip you up,
‘Cuz you’re stumbling on your alibi’s.

That girl’s weekend out to Vegas
They all said you had to take
I asked one of them about it,
she said that Florida was great

Chorus:
Caution to the wind
You threw… Caution to the wind
Its true,
I know where you’ve been,
Throwing caution to the wind.

All your carefully crafted stories,
Woven lies you’ve spun so well
Could not insulate me from the truth,
the look upon your face now tells.

Did you think I wouldn’t find out
or that somehow you’d escape
all the dreadful consequence’s
of the choice that you have made

Chorus:

Bridge:
Regrets.
Sad state. (Or --- too great)
Remorse.
Too late.
Reasons.
Don’t care
The end,
I’m there!

Chorus

Angelo
can see the development of the rewrite and the verses are certainly getting stronger and more cohesive.

I will point you back to what Donna said re
Losing a verse will keep the lyric from being overly wordy...

The less is more principal, it is what you leave which is more imporantant than what you put in. if the verse just retells as V4 does, leave it out or combine the best lines and rewrite it back to one verse.

I would have a crack at writing this just as VCVC or maybe VVCVC - your good lines will stand out more and crack into the chorus

Good Luck

Arty

Thanks Arty. I dropped the last verse entirely on Donna's suggestion. I am probably going to rewrite the first half of the second verse so as to make things flow better. Any thoughts on the bridge other than lose it?

Angelo

Hi Angelo,

I really like the way this song has developed. You obviously have a knack for writing. I'm glad you used the input of others on this song because it has really become something to pat yourself on the back over. Good stuff!

Angelo
It is not a problem to have a bridge, but it should introduce or complete the narrative. Just to include one for having it for most is a big mistake.

The most important point of verse and bridges is how they hit against the chorus and therefore does the chorus work directly against them.

The best songs work with a chorus that changes / grows each and every time you hear it in a song - Look at Welcome to the Hotel California, nice, strange and now dark, take this as 101 chorus development.

The goal is to try, write a bridge or two or three for this and try to make each one act on the chorus differently - if none of them work, it is still a great excercise!

Arty

Wes and Arty, thanks for the input and encouragement. I will digest these and get back to more of the rewrite. 

Angelo

Enjoyed Da Read Angelo.Like how it has developed.All Da Best with it my friend.

Angelo, this is beautiful and above all well written. Nice piece of work my friend. Keep up the good work. God bless! Dennis

Thanks all. I have gone back and forth on this one. It never has gotten to a place where I would consider it done. The most recent attempt to record it took the lyrics back to the beginning. We'll have to see where it ends up. For the time being, I am on to other pieces.